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Q & A Thread For Newbies & Old Hands Alike!

You don't want tubing mate, you need solid billet.

Parkzone Stryker 27 Evolution
E flite Ultra Stick , T 28 Carbon Z
Skyartec Skyfun Scorpion,Skyfun 90 EDF
Hobbyking Voltigeur, Funfighter T28, Mirage 2000, Minimoa 2.4m Glider
Jet Teng L-39 HPAT Stumax 90
Pheonix Tiger 50
FliteWork Extra 300 LPX 2.6M
Spectrum DX9i , DX6

Don't ever let the fear of landing keep you from taking off!
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Yep Gazz is right either 3/8 or 10mm Aluminum machine bar or T6061 will do. 7000 series Aluninum bar is OK too you just don't want the soft gooey stuff that doesn't machine well. Machine bar is the best for this job tho'.
You can get it from Smart Aluminum in Eirskin park, you'll get a 4m length for less than $10 I reckon.

Erskine Park
Building C1, 1-107 Erskine Park Road
ERSKINE PARK NSW 2759
Tel + 61 2 9670 8500
Fax +61 2 9670 8555


“The knack of flying is learning how to throw your machine at the ground and miss.”

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your thoughts turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."  ~Leonardo Da Vinci
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Struggled a bit to locate "Smart Aluminium" no street numbers anywhere on Erskine Park Rd. I entered the complex after taking a wrong guess first time. Parked the car in a carpark near the entry & then started looking for the building. Asked a few people who hadn't heard of them. After several hundred metres of walking I found building C1 and found Capral Aluminium. The industrial estate is last on the right 100m or so short of Mamre Rd. Enter the complex & turn right at the round-about and building is a tad over 100m on left (Just in case anybody else is venturing there).
Minimum length of 10mm aluminium machine bar is 3.6m (which they kindly cut into half for transport) but was only $8.45. So the excess of approx 150mm I needed is available for our club members in need. I intend giving 1/2 to Jason for him to machine my standoffs (I will eventually need) & he can keep the rest to use as he pleases.
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Excellent,

Sorry You had to under go a bit of a mission to find the place.

Just measure up and let me know how long you want it and I'll catch you at the field to grab the Al bar Smile

“The knack of flying is learning how to throw your machine at the ground and miss.”

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your thoughts turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."  ~Leonardo Da Vinci
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A while ago I asked a question about putting a rudder back on that had its hinges tear off, and I think it was Claudio who recommend a method where you use 2 pieces of tape to make a hinge of sorts and do that multiple times over the surface to reinforce each other. I tried it, and it worked.

For about a weekend, then the tape decided it wasnt going to hold and came unstuck. (Fortunately while in the hangar and not while flying).

What sort of tape do people recommend for this? It will be sticking to itself and to a piece of painted depron - so far I am using reinforced tape, and it keeps coming unstuck from the depron.

Radio: DX8, Mode 1
Blu-Baby (decided to go green and hug a tree, in repairs)
Parkzone T-28 Trojan (pilot looks asleep but plane ready to go)
E-Flite UMX Beast (Barrel roll you say? But I did 10 in a row while you were asking)
Parkzone T-28 Trojan Ultra-Micro (terrorising the local workplace in the name of more practice)
Parkzone Stryker Ultra-Micro (ready to take fingers off willing launchers)
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Hinging tape . Available at hobbies in the hills or HK .

patience !!Biggrin paaatience !!Paranoid paaaaaatience Tounge paaaaaaatieeence Lol dooooohhhh !!! Upset


DANGER WIFE CAN READ FORUMS . love you darling . sig changed .
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Ben
I have a roll of the HK hinging tape, if you are flying Saturday bring your plane down and I will help you replace it, it only takes 5 minutes. Weather permitting I will be at the field from 8.30 till about 1pm
Gazz

Parkzone Stryker 27 Evolution
E flite Ultra Stick , T 28 Carbon Z
Skyartec Skyfun Scorpion,Skyfun 90 EDF
Hobbyking Voltigeur, Funfighter T28, Mirage 2000, Minimoa 2.4m Glider
Jet Teng L-39 HPAT Stumax 90
Pheonix Tiger 50
FliteWork Extra 300 LPX 2.6M
Spectrum DX9i , DX6

Don't ever let the fear of landing keep you from taking off!
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Took my new World Models Extra 300 EP up into the air on Saturday, and while landing, I was about 1m off the ground and flairing in when it suddenly dropped vertically onto the wheels, bending 1 strut. Model weighs about 1.8kg, 1280mm wingspan. (Produce Specs said 1.5kg.)
Had it powered by Turnigy G25 710kv (already had motor & bought plane to utilise it), Turnigy plush 60amp ESC, Turnigy 4S 3300 mAh 30-40c battery & 11x7 APC prop.
I believe the bigger than necessary power train is the extra weight & resultant stall.
Ecalc says 3s with a 13x8 APC prop should give me 1.13:1 thrust to weight. A substantial drop in thrust for saving 100g. I have a wooden 14x8 turnigy light electric prop which will give me 1.30:1 thrust but worried about ground clearance for prop on landing. Both Hobs in Hills & Ultimate are out of stock for 13x8s & HK dont sell them. Other props on ecalc dont seem to come up with the goods. This model has given me the heebie-jeebies from onset & looks to be continuing.
Any suggestions anybody?
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Wayne
Iv'e got a brand new unopened 13 x 8 APC in my box of goodies.
I will bring it down tomorrow.
What do you mean HK don't sell 'em. Iv'e just found a 13 x 8 Light Electric Turnigy prop. I will bring that one as well.
Remember to bring your prop hub drills.
Gazz

Parkzone Stryker 27 Evolution
E flite Ultra Stick , T 28 Carbon Z
Skyartec Skyfun Scorpion,Skyfun 90 EDF
Hobbyking Voltigeur, Funfighter T28, Mirage 2000, Minimoa 2.4m Glider
Jet Teng L-39 HPAT Stumax 90
Pheonix Tiger 50
FliteWork Extra 300 LPX 2.6M
Spectrum DX9i , DX6

Don't ever let the fear of landing keep you from taking off!
Reply

Thanx Gazz, must admit I didnt look in light electric wooden props in HK, just APC. I thought the APC props would be lighter, but on checking the wooden ones are lighter.
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My flight in the lightened Extra 300 EP was less than impressive, attempted loops gave an excessive roll. Thought I may have accidently intruduced rudder with up elevator so paid particular attention to vertical elevator stick movement on next attempt & same result. Final left turn for landing & introduced elevator in the turn & it straightened up nearly ending up in the trees next to the entry ramp. Have checked that the horizintal stabiliser is parallel to wing spar & is ok. As each side of the elevator is individually controled (pushrods coupled to one bar attached to 1 servo arm) I checked that the throw on each elevator is the same. Again checked as OK.
On initial flight had to give a large amount of right aileron trim for it to fly straight.
Has me baffled.
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Originally prop vibration on the Extra 300EP was a flimsy firewall extension which was suitable braced. When it started vibrating again, I thought it was loose bolts securing motor. Tightened them & still vibrated. Wasnt so much loose motor bolts, but cracked firewall. Glued cracks with CA & put another piece of ply over the top with epoxy top & bottom. Now firm everywhere.
Checked & double checked everything to find out why is rolling from up elevator. Lateral centre of gravity is spot on. When I installed the horizontal stab, I measured from the wing spar to the outer tips of stab to ensure correct position. I have now checked from wing tips to stab tips & there is 5mm difference. Is this sufficient to cause severe rolling from elevator use? If so, what can I do to rectify rolling as I dont think I can move epoxied horizontal stabiliser. Comments will be appreciated.
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I don't think that the 5mm difference in wingtips to tailplane tips would be the cause Wayne. Don't know what else to point the finger at though. It just sounds too much like different elevator throws but you've already discounted that one. It's very mysterious ...

Steve Murray
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Doo doo do do, doo doo do do (think twilight zone).
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I'd like to have a really good look at that airframe next time we cross paths, mate... but I'm flying out west tomorrow.

Parkzone Stryker 27 Evolution
E flite Ultra Stick , T 28 Carbon Z
Skyartec Skyfun Scorpion,Skyfun 90 EDF
Hobbyking Voltigeur, Funfighter T28, Mirage 2000, Minimoa 2.4m Glider
Jet Teng L-39 HPAT Stumax 90
Pheonix Tiger 50
FliteWork Extra 300 LPX 2.6M
Spectrum DX9i , DX6

Don't ever let the fear of landing keep you from taking off!
Reply

Spoilerons - is a little bit of that a positive method of aiding in the decent of a large(ish, it's all relative) model when the wing structure pretty much rules out adding flaps?

What's the detractors and any undesirable side effects of using a spoileron function?

Signature overload. That list just got ridiculous. However, Funcubs are .... fun.
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(19-09-2013, 10:42 PM)Steven Wrote:  Spoilerons - is a little bit of that a positive method of aiding in the decent of a large(ish, it's all relative) model when the wing structure pretty much rules out adding flaps?

What's the detractors and any undesirable side effects of using a spoileron function?

It will depends on how your ailerons are set up. If the ailerons are pretty much full length of the wing it should work OK, If the ailerons are out towards the tips like a T28 it should also work OK. This is like adding "wash out" but if they are in near the root and you raise them it can be like adding "wash in" and that's not good.

Wash out = lower angle of attack at the tips = not likely to tip stall
Wash in = higher angle of attack at the tips = likely to tip stall

Deploying spoilerons will change the camber of the wing and make it less efficient and that will make the model more dragy and it will loose height and wash off speed quickly.

Because it will change the angle of attack of the wing you will probably have to compensate with a change of elevator trim. The tricky bit is finding out how much, once you do that and mix it in to the elevator then it should work properly. Another thing you will probably find is that, with spoilerons deployed the speed range of the model gets quite a bit narrower. So you will have to fly it slow with spoilerons deployed or it will zoom.

What I usually find happens is I accidently launch with spoilerons deployed and because I'm going fast it zooms then I add a heap of down trim and wonder why it's still flying weird. Then I realise I've been flying with spoilerons deployed and I need to re-trim.


“The knack of flying is learning how to throw your machine at the ground and miss.”

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your thoughts turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."  ~Leonardo Da Vinci
Reply

What model do you want to put the spoilerons on Steve.
Aircraft that land like Hotliners need them and really floaty aircraft like the Eflite Apprentice are easier to land with them deployed because as Jason said they produce a lot of drag and slow down the aircraft but they also destoy lift so when you hit the switch the aircraft behaves very differently.... they sink fast. If you operate them with flaps (this is known as crows footing)... flaps down/ailerons up you litterally stop the aircraft in its tracks because of the huge drag generated but they become very hard to control, so you only turn them on when you are lined up for final or your world will go horribly wrong very fast.
Hope this helps
Gazz

Parkzone Stryker 27 Evolution
E flite Ultra Stick , T 28 Carbon Z
Skyartec Skyfun Scorpion,Skyfun 90 EDF
Hobbyking Voltigeur, Funfighter T28, Mirage 2000, Minimoa 2.4m Glider
Jet Teng L-39 HPAT Stumax 90
Pheonix Tiger 50
FliteWork Extra 300 LPX 2.6M
Spectrum DX9i , DX6

Don't ever let the fear of landing keep you from taking off!
Reply

I'm procrastinating so I might take a crack at it as well Smile

Spoilerons are the opposite of flaperons. The ailerons will jointly move upward to dump ("spoil") lift, while still maintaining a (reduced) capacity to generate roll through opposite displacement.

The choice of whether to use spoilerons or flaperons - or neither - is dependent on the characteristics of the airframe. Flaperons increase lift and thereby potentially reduce the stall speed of the plane, but there is a trap. Being farther outboard on the wing than "real" flaps, flaperons (ailerons) are more prone to sudden laminar flow separation - a sudden stall. Since the condition is almost invariably asymmetric, the result is a "tip" stall, an uneven collapse of lift which causes one wing to dip far more than the other, thus inducing roll and a change of flight direction. This of course tends to happen on the final approach when airspeeds and altitude are already low, and there may be insufficient time and space to correct.

Spoilerons make no attempt to improve lift. On the contrary, they purposefully reduce the wing's efficiency, in order to increase the glide slope. That is a legitimate means of shortening the landing if the plane has adequate lift in reserve, and if the landing gear and structure can absorb the impulse. The advantage is that the tendency to tip stall is reduced or eliminated, since laminar flow separation is not being threatened. The disadvantage is that landing speed is not inherently reduced by spoilerons. Another disadvantage, again depending on the airframe characteristics, is the reduced aileron throw. Once both ailerons are flicked upward, their capacity to induce roll is correspondingly decreased.

On a "full house" wing with flaps, ailerons, and individual "addressability" through having four separate servos driven through four radio channels, the options multiply:

Reflex: slight raising of both the flaps and ailerons to get as close as possible to a symmetric wing profile and thus reduce drag. Done to increase speed at the cost of losing lift.

Camber: slight lowering of both ailerons and flaps, to achieve the exact opposite of Reflex.

Crow: spoilerons deployed (upward) at the same time as the flaps go down. The intention is to kill lift without pitching up or down. The downward force vector of the spoilerons should be precisely counteracted by the flaps. If not, the elevator(s) can be programmed to compensate.

With all of these configurations it can be useful to employ the transmitter's "slow" servo deployment option, or (rarer) a separate electronic unit in the plane to delay servo travel over a say 5 second period. The intention is twofold. First is to prevent sudden jerky movement of the plane after control surface displacement. Having both ailerons trip upward in ~20deg spoileron can make the plane fall out of the sky like a brick. The other reason to slow down the servos is to reduce the likelihood of overpowering the BEC and thereby causing an Rx brownout. This is particularly important with reflex/camber/crow when up to five or six servos can all experience transient current spikes when a switch is flicked on the transmitter. By slowing down the deployment of the control surfaces, current peaks are reduced as well.

Or the short version... depends on the plane. Try it high up and see Wink
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Your Right It really depends on each Airframe,

My Nemesis with Spoilerons on causes my Plane to nose up and drop the speed down real quick and caution was needed for tipstall.

Yet on my old Glider spoilerons forced it down to land otherwise it would glide forrrrevvveeer, without any fears of tipstalling.

Steve Smile


What Do You Mean Theres a Throttle Curve ?, Its Either all the way up or all the way down Tongue_smile
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It is very much a try it and see thing, but the question is do you really need it?
I had spoilerons set up on the Turnigy 9X with Dynamite no1, but the way the TX handled the mixing was not to my liking. It will be much better with the Taranis. The original prototype doesn't really need it but the new fuse makes the model much more slippery and it would probably make my landings better if I use some means of increasing the sink rate.


Andre Made some very good points in his post, well worth a read !! Thanks Andre !!

“The knack of flying is learning how to throw your machine at the ground and miss.”

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your thoughts turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."  ~Leonardo Da Vinci
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Indeed, there is some good learning in everyone's posts. Thanks!

Gaz, I am thinking about it for the 1640mm 1/6th scale VQ clipped wing J3 that I will be building soon (as soon as I get the little Cub I killed last year off the repair bench).

It has fairly tiny (even in comparison to my small models) ailerons at the extremities of the wings. The wing structure is as such that flaps simply can't be cut and hinged, it's mostly hollow where they should be and would require more destruction and reconstruction than it would be worth.

As for why? A security blanket until I see how short I can pull it up from drag alone, and now I have a radio with servo speed and stuff, and the never ending desire to mess with stuff Tounge Spoilerons would be just a mix, adding flaps probably would result in new wings being ordered Lol I now have my MPX Funcub (in Hobart) with flaps on a DX6i, with no servo speed control, and to be honest, I'm not a fan of of full speed flap deployment, the instant ballooning is more tricky to deal with than just landing a giant docile block of foam.


Oh, another point you raised, Garry, the effect of "crows footing"... I have just seen something like the result of that... Tasmanian Phil's new trick with his MPX Funcub: Slam the flaps down full and basically kill any forward motion, so the plane just hovers stationary and level from the prop thrust alone. That just looks freakish.

Signature overload. That list just got ridiculous. However, Funcubs are .... fun.
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Airbrushing

There's more to this than meets the eye! I did a job on my PZ Bf-109 which was passable but I didn't have to do anything too intricate and I got away with a cheap single-action setup and some thinned Tamiya paints. The final result wasn't great and I didn't do any weathering, which was a bit of a cop-out.

Now I'm trying to get good results with my Paasche double-action brush but there are a lot of variables and I'm not winning at the moment. I'm pretty sure I've got the paint thinned properly but I think I might be using too much air-pressure because the paint runs on the surface. The instructions which came with the airbrush aren't useful to me - I think they're pitched at a professional who knows what they're doing already. So far, I've been through two little bottles of paint and I'll have to go to HitH and get some more to cover the botch-job I've done on my Beaufighter.

I know JohnH and KevB have some experience - can anyone recommend a good YouTube tutorial or two?

Steve Murray
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There are a few tutoriLs for air brushing models on you tube
Basically you want to start at about 15psi and work up the pressure from there until it works good
I'd get some lacquer from the auto paint shop in guiraween they sell small tins and when you thin it you end up with twice as much
Lacquer sprays really nicely and it's not that expencive
I used It on. The Dynamites
The best way I found to do airbrush work is with stencils
Here's one I did for Nellys birthday
   

“The knack of flying is learning how to throw your machine at the ground and miss.”

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your thoughts turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."  ~Leonardo Da Vinci
Reply

I've been spray painting Motor bikes, cars and boats for over 25 years Steve.
If you would like me to drop by one afternoon, I can give you a personal tutorial which will be ten times more helpful than any video.
Gazz

Parkzone Stryker 27 Evolution
E flite Ultra Stick , T 28 Carbon Z
Skyartec Skyfun Scorpion,Skyfun 90 EDF
Hobbyking Voltigeur, Funfighter T28, Mirage 2000, Minimoa 2.4m Glider
Jet Teng L-39 HPAT Stumax 90
Pheonix Tiger 50
FliteWork Extra 300 LPX 2.6M
Spectrum DX9i , DX6

Don't ever let the fear of landing keep you from taking off!
Reply

Gotta have nice dry air too
Drain the tank on the compressor and the bowl on the water trap on your regulator
Regularly
The paint should be thinned until it's about the consistency of milk

I use gimp to make stencils it a really good photo editor and it's free to d/load
There are heaps of tutorials for making stencils using gimp
Once you print them then you laminate them and then cut them out with an exacto knife

“The knack of flying is learning how to throw your machine at the ground and miss.”

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your thoughts turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."  ~Leonardo Da Vinci
Reply

Jason and Gazz - thanks very much for the tips.

Yes, alright Gazz - I'll get a couple of beers in the fridge and you can come around and show me what you know. I'll have to get up to Hobbies in the Hills first though, to pick up some more paint. Maybe Thursday afternoon? ...

Nice demo work Jason!

Steve Murray
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These are the guys I get paint from, They sell lots of different types of paint.


here's the stuff I use It's arcilic lacquer. It sprays very nicely It's a lot cheaper that the Tamia paint and very similar. It dries hard and fast, it's durable and it sticks well to most things. Its what the factories used to use for spraying cars untill 2 pack paint became all the go.
http://www.vgautopaints.com.au/auto-pain...auto-paint

here's some special effect stuff
http://www.vgautopaints.com.au/component...stom-paint

They also do cources for free on spraypainting on some Satterday mornings and there are a bunch of how too videos here, pretty much automotive orientated but interesting tho'
http://www.vgautopaints.com.au/diy-videos/repair-guides

They also do solvent based and water based airbrush paint kits too

I was just having a look at this one it's solvent based,
http://www.vgautopaints.com.au/component...=component&format=pdf
Acrilic perhaps ??? you might have to ask.
Here's what I googled on concept unicolour
http://www.conceptpaints.com.au/TDS/Unic...System.pdf
Looks like these are made up of concintrated tinters that can be used with either single park acrilic or emamil or 2k binders. Looks like not a bad set for $99. there's a fair bit of paint there.

It's good to have heaps of paint to play with just get a sheet of paper and tape it to a card board box and get a heap of practice, there's not enough in a Tamia bottle, you need a fair bit to get a handle on using an airbrush, with the double action airbrush you want to trun on the air first then the paint and turn off the paint first and then the air. that will stop the paint dripping out. also set it up to give you only just enough paint to start off with that will make it a bit easier till you get used to using it.

Did I mention I like acrilic lacquer Wink It's easy to clean out of spray guns/air brushes,
I like to use a mask when I'm spraying paint. Even if it's just a reasonable quality disposable one, paint is bad for the lungs


(10-11-2013, 09:22 PM)smuzz Wrote:  Nice demo work Jason!

They are a pair of Scallywaggs, Smile I had some fun out shopping with them on Sunday arvo! They even gave me a discount at the goodguys because I threatened to leave them there.

“The knack of flying is learning how to throw your machine at the ground and miss.”

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your thoughts turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."  ~Leonardo Da Vinci
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Nice work Jason - thanks for taking the time to post all that stuff. I'll go through it later!

Steve Murray
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Good pressure control and dry air are important, I think I still have the pressure regulator and filter I used years ago and you are welcome to those. Learning to use soft and hard masks is also important.
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