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UBEC how to choose one!
#1


Hi,
This topic might have been discussed before and maybe there is no straight answer, but if anyone can guide me it would be great.
How do I know what UBEC to use on my Servos?
My Katana 50e has 5 X Turnigy 620DMG+HS High Torque Digital Servo (MG) 10.6kg / .13sec / 52g. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...oduct=9441
I have a 3A UBEC running the servo's. The Rudder Servos was twitching. so I connected a 6V life battery direct without the UBEC and all the rest of the servos started to twitch. So I'm guessing not enough AMPS so I tried a 5A UBEC and no twitching except for the rudder! Would an 8A UBEC be better to run these 5 servos? What are the rules and how do you know what to use?

George

"Crash and Cry! Don't fly"


RadioBiggrinX9 & DX8
HK Cri Cri ugly,Super Cub 1870mm balsa, Sbach 1000mm balsa, Vampire, Katana E50 balsa, BA Hawke 90mm (on hold for large runway), Durafly BF110, Corsair,
EScale Zero
Freewing Eurofighter Typhoon & SU-34
Starmax F5e Tiger & 70mm F-18
FMS T-28 Trojan, P-38 Silver, 50mm F-86, C-17 Globmaster

Fly fly F-100
B-25 2.0m LX and A10 1.5m Langxiang (being glassed and re-built)
Seagull Super Tucano
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#2

There are way to may variables to even think about a simple answer to that one George.
A lot of manufacturers supply stall torques. But the load on your servos changes every second you are in the air and where you have the sticks and exactly what you are asking the aircraft to do at the time.
I have not done enough reading on the subject to give you the answer you are looking for, but the problem could be high resistance in a solder joint or a connection between the reciever and the servo.
I know its a pain but try swaping the servos to different connections on the reciever. If the problem stays in the same servo then bin it. If it goes away it could be a connection at the reciever.
If another servo works OK on that reciever output then once again its probably the servo.
If the servo is doing it with no load (sitting on the ground) then bin it.
If you really want to get technical you can do a load test on the servo and see if there is a problem.
I have never had a servo twick that didnt have an internal problem, when they do that mate you bin them. Not worth loosing a plane over.
Remember these things only draw milliamps.
I run a stand alone BEC on my big Sukhoi 140 and the battery for that is only 2S 1000mah and that is running 5 x 18 kg servos, it comes down after a 6 minute flight at nearly 4 volts per cell.
I am building a Seagull Super Tucano at the moment and will be running 8 x high torque 12 kg servos through a Dualsky 80 amp ESC and the BEC in that supplies 5.5 volts at 5 amps.
I dont think it will be a problem................Fingers crossed.
Its good to remember to engineer your aircraft so they are reliable and safe, but dont over do it and add weight that dosent really need to be there.
Test it before you fly it!


Parkzone Stryker 27 Evolution
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Skyartec Skyfun Scorpion,Skyfun 90 EDF
Hobbyking Voltigeur, Funfighter T28, Mirage 2000, Minimoa 2.4m Glider
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Spectrum DX9i , DX6

Don't ever let the fear of landing keep you from taking off!
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#3

i'm a bit of a novice here , but i scrutinized one of jasons bigger models with this very thing in mind . his UBECS , are soldered into the 6s battery deans plug , that also plugs into the ESC . i thought 2 things here . #1 wow thats great for power energy supply , and # not so good if your battery cokmpletely fails in the air . but really your servoes will draw what they require , not what the U'BEC SAYS . so the higher i would think the better , 6 i would think would be ok . of course i'm only theorizing , and i'm glad you found the problem . i'm sure with your 6s 5000mah battery , it would supply heaps of current to the servos ,

even when the motor starts to drop off .


good luck , i havent done this yet , but its on my mind also , for safety . look forward to reading others opinions on your questions , and finding out the correct answer , but you seem already on track to the fix .

patience !!Biggrin paaatience !!Paranoid paaaaaatience Tounge paaaaaaatieeence Lol dooooohhhh !!! Upset


DANGER WIFE CAN READ FORUMS . love you darling . sig changed .
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#4

George, if one servo behaves differently under identical conditions, it's suspect. By increasing the oomph (volts) you may have bypassed its problem. Just replace it. Not sure why the LiFe battery caused those issues. It shouldn't have. Maybe your sus servo was dragging down the voltage to the point the other servos were too low.

As Bigbird says..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueZ6tvqhk8U
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#5

(18-06-2012, 06:26 PM)wingtipper Wrote:  good luck , i havent done this yet , but its on my mind also , for safety . look forward to reading others opinions on your questions , and finding out the correct answer , but you seem already on track to the fix .

I use a UBEC in all my large size planes. If the ESC burnes out in flight, which is common, you still have control over your servos and can dead stick land your plane. I think its a must on anyplane you dont want to loose.
(18-06-2012, 09:42 PM)Skidz Wrote:  George, if one servo behaves differently under identical conditions, it's suspect. By increasing the oomph (volts) you may have bypassed its problem. Just replace it. Not sure why the LiFe battery caused those issues. It shouldn't have. Maybe your sus servo was dragging down the voltage to the point the other servos were too low.

I changed the servo and the new one seem to work well. but I still have slight Jetters on all servos. I set the Jumper on the UBEC from 5V to 6V and the Jetter is gone. but what I notice was when I move sevral servos at once the reciever starts to blink. (Loss of power/Amps). I think these servo's are pulling more than 5A and I need to change my UBEC to 8A or better. Will work on that tonight.

George

"Crash and Cry! Don't fly"


RadioBiggrinX9 & DX8
HK Cri Cri ugly,Super Cub 1870mm balsa, Sbach 1000mm balsa, Vampire, Katana E50 balsa, BA Hawke 90mm (on hold for large runway), Durafly BF110, Corsair,
EScale Zero
Freewing Eurofighter Typhoon & SU-34
Starmax F5e Tiger & 70mm F-18
FMS T-28 Trojan, P-38 Silver, 50mm F-86, C-17 Globmaster

Fly fly F-100
B-25 2.0m LX and A10 1.5m Langxiang (being glassed and re-built)
Seagull Super Tucano
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#6

Change your ESC George

patience !!Biggrin paaatience !!Paranoid paaaaaatience Tounge paaaaaaatieeence Lol dooooohhhh !!! Upset


DANGER WIFE CAN READ FORUMS . love you darling . sig changed .
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#7

George, Jitters could mean numerous Faults and rx Blinking or powering off.

One Faulty Servo can cause the rx to blink and shut off or jitter all servos when control input is given. I have had this Happen (rudder servo).

Rx's can be faulty, i have had one a while ago.

Esc could be faulty or Ubec if you are using one.

Connections check all and check pins are in properly too, jiggle wires while inputing.

Steve

What Do You Mean Theres a Throttle Curve ?, Its Either all the way up or all the way down Tongue_smile
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#8

(18-06-2012, 06:26 PM)wingtipper Wrote:  i'm a bit of a novice here , but i scrutinized one of jasons bigger models with this very thing in mind . his UBECS , are soldered into the 6s battery deans plug , that also plugs into the ESC . i thought 2 things here . #1 wow thats great for power energy supply , and # not so good if your battery cokmpletely fails in the air . but really your servoes will draw what they require , not what the U'BEC SAYS . so the higher i would think the better , 6 i would think would be ok . of course i'm only theorizing , and i'm glad you found the problem . i'm sure with your 6s 5000mah battery , it would supply heaps of current to the servos ,

even when the motor starts to drop off .


good luck , i havent done this yet , but its on my mind also , for safety . look forward to reading others opinions on your questions , and finding out the correct answer , but you seem already on track to the fix .

I do solder the BEC inputs on to the Terminals of the plug for the ESC on some of my smaller models but these are only 3S and 4S setups. On every model that I run 6S the ESC has it's own internal 5A BEC. Except for my Ugly stick which uses a 4S nicad pack for the radio link, it also has a nicad voltage monitor/alarm on it, as it's the only 6S powered model I run with out telemetry to monitor the battery voltage.

Frank you may have mistook the voltage divider I use to provide the signal voltage to the FRSky RX, for a BEC on one of the 6S models when you were looking at it. It's also soldered to the ESC's plug terminals.

The FRsky telemetry uses an A to D converter that accepts a signal voltage between 0 and 3.2 Volts. I use this to monitor the battery voltage, Actually it can monitor 2 independant voltages, I measure one from the main power pack and one from the radio link pack or BEC/liniar reg.
Now the voltage it measures must be between those limits, 0 and 3.2 Volts, you can set an alarm to go off at any point you like with in that range. There are two sets of alarms for each channel, stage one, basic warning, stage two more urgent, Set them at some point between 0 and 3.2V and then use a voltage divider to bring the Pack voltage sample down to the right ratio to match the alarm points. It may sound complicated but it's not that hard to do and wellworth it. I reckon Samste will be looking to do something like this with his New TX and FRsky Telemetry recievers.

On the bigger models that run 12S I use dual 8A liniar regulators with two seperate 800Mah 2S lipos. That provides nice clean noise free power to the Reciever that is totally independant of the (often noisy) motor supply. Also because there are two supplies if one fails I have a second to keep the RC link up. You need to use diodes if you going to connect two liniar regs together or you can use a twin one that's ready made from dual sky. About $30

It's worth remembering that tha greater the voltage difference across the BEC the harder it has to work. You may well find a BEC that provides 5A with 3S could only provide 3A with 4S.

There are different types of BEC some are little switch mode supplies and can be noisy, but handel the voltage difference better than liniar regulator type BECs. Liniar regs are very low noise, better for your reciever and servos but work very hard if there is a big voltage difference between their input and out put.

Those big servos do use quite a bit of current. You can measure it but if you do, use a 10A multi meter not a 100A curent meter that you use for measuring your main motors current draw. Big current meters are not very accurate down in the lower ranges. Don't just take my word for it check it your self. Smile

Those big servos need a burst of curent to get them moving that's where you see the high draw it's a pulse when the servo's motor spools up then the current drops a little. If there's big enough capasitors in the BEC then it's not such a problem as they kind of act like a flywheel and smooth things out a bit.

If you have a current or noise problem a seperate Nicad pack will be a great solution if your not too worried about the weight. It can provide 20A if need be and is not very expencive. I think it's a good idea to have a low voltage monitor or alarm for a seperate pack if you use one for the RC link.

Hope this is of some help.






“The knack of flying is learning how to throw your machine at the ground and miss.”

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your thoughts turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."  ~Leonardo Da Vinci
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#9

(22-06-2012, 10:36 AM)secant0give Wrote:  
(18-06-2012, 06:26 PM)wingtipper Wrote:  i'm a bit of a novice here , but i scrutinized one of jasons bigger models with this very thing in mind . his UBECS , are soldered into the 6s battery deans plug , that also plugs into the ESC . i thought 2 things here . #1 wow thats great for power energy supply , and # not so good if your battery cokmpletely fails in the air . but really your servoes will draw what they require , not what the U'BEC SAYS . so the higher i would think the better , 6 i would think would be ok . of course i'm only theorizing , and i'm glad you found the problem . i'm sure with your 6s 5000mah battery , it would supply heaps of current to the servos ,

even when the motor starts to drop off .


good luck , i havent done this yet , but its on my mind also , for safety . look forward to reading others opinions on your questions , and finding out the correct answer , but you seem already on track to the fix .

I do solder the BEC inputs on to the Terminals of the plug for the ESC on some of my smaller models but these are only 3S and 4S setups. On every model that I run 6S the ESC has it's own internal 5A BEC. Except for my Ugly stick which uses a 4S nicad pack for the radio link, it also has a nicad voltage monitor/alarm on it, as it's the only 6S powered model I run with out telemetry to monitor the battery voltage.

It's worth remembering that tha greater the voltage difference across the BEC the harder it has to work. You may well find a BEC that provides 5A with 3S could only provide 3A with 4S.

Hope this is of some help.

Hi Jason
This is great help.
4S nicad.. you mean 4 X AA or something else?
I had not idea that the BEC works harder when I use 6S...
I worry if I use the ESC's built in Bec and It fails I have no way of bringing my modle back. I normaly use ESC's without BEC or disconnect the red wire/Bec and always add my own. Reading your article reminded me that this ESC has build in BEC and I forgot to disconnect it and this is probably whay I'm having issues. I will check when I get home tonight.

Thanks.

George

"Crash and Cry! Don't fly"


RadioBiggrinX9 & DX8
HK Cri Cri ugly,Super Cub 1870mm balsa, Sbach 1000mm balsa, Vampire, Katana E50 balsa, BA Hawke 90mm (on hold for large runway), Durafly BF110, Corsair,
EScale Zero
Freewing Eurofighter Typhoon & SU-34
Starmax F5e Tiger & 70mm F-18
FMS T-28 Trojan, P-38 Silver, 50mm F-86, C-17 Globmaster

Fly fly F-100
B-25 2.0m LX and A10 1.5m Langxiang (being glassed and re-built)
Seagull Super Tucano
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#10

4xAA 1500 mAh or there abouts Sony are about the best brand
Kellets or hobbies in the hills will have them already made up in a pack with the right plug on them and most lipo chargers will charge them no probs on the nicad setting

“The knack of flying is learning how to throw your machine at the ground and miss.”

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your thoughts turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."  ~Leonardo Da Vinci
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