[BenR]

Hi,

Took a look at Hobbies in the Hills today, and came away with 3 options for getting a sim to practice on before I get a plane.

1. Buy an el cheapo USB special from ebay and learn on that with FMS. Estimated cost $20-40.

2. Buy a pack I saw today, which was a copy of Phoenix RC with a spektrum dx5e. Cost $199.

3. Buy a spektrum dx6i for $199, buy a trainer cord off ebay and use FMS. Cost about $230-240.

To my unskilled mind, training on a real controller sounds like a good idea - the feel of the controller in my hand wont change when moving from sim to real (please correct me if I am missing something here). I am not sure about the software side though. Is phoenix so much better then FMS that it justifies getting a 5 channel not a 6?

[kizza42]

Phoenix & Realflight are much better than FMS when it comes to physics & graphics. Depending on what you need the sim to help you most with will determine whether its worth your while to go with each sim.

If you have any idea about the principles of flight and just need help learning how to maintain orientation of an aircraft going away or coming back to you, grab FMS. If your a little shaky in the physics dept then a better sim will help you understand how model planes handle.

GET YOURSELF A DECENT RADIO TO START WITH. If you skimp on the wrong things in this Hobby you end up paying for everything twice or thrice.

A Dx6i is the bare minimum you really want to start with. Dx5e is a complete waste of money.
Dx7i or DX8 is where the smart money is if you intend to stay in the hobby and move to bigger stuff down the track.

You should also keep in mind you need to budget for a battery charger, batteries, club/insurance fee's.

[Cessna]

That's exactly how I started, Pheonix is an amazing Sim! The visuals and locations to fly in are incredible. I bought the same package at Hills and have never looked back. And I agree FMS is very very basic and free to download but if you looking for a more realistic sim, Pheonix is the way to go. I bought the Dx6i Tx and am very happy with it, all the planes I'm looking at need no more then 6ch's so as a starter, intermediate and even advance it's the best option.

[secant0give]

Just quietly you can get a Pheonix dongle and software on disk here for under $20
That's where I got mine and it's a beautie !!

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/usb-9-in-1-...gle-107401

And I agree whole heatedly with Kieran

GET YOURSELF A DECENT RADIO TO START WITH. If you skimp on the wrong things in this Hobby you end up paying for everything twice or thrice.

A Dx6i is the bare minimum............................. ....................................

Cry once

[Claudius]

Another vote for Option 4: Get Phoenix and a nicer Tx (a Dx6i or better) separately - perhaps negotiate a better deal with the local hobby store if you buy at the same time.

[paulj]

If you go for the usb/dongle you will still need a controller
for it to work

[smuzz]

When I was just considering getting into RC aircraft with my teenage son, I wasn't too sure that I wanted to outlay loadsamoney on stuff which wasn't actually flying stuff - so I hesitated, and we got a cheap fake transmitter and used FMS.

For me, FMS wasn't really that engaging or interesting (although it was a great piece of free software) but Junior spent about two weeks where he was thrashing it in all of his spare time. The upshot was that he was that he was flying solo in record time and I was still struggling - in fact, I underwent the indignity of having him buddy-box and instruct me for about a year. He managed the transition from a fake transmitter to the real DX6i and a real model easily, but perhaps it was the recklessness of youth as well as natural hand-eye coordination which helped him along with that. So, FMS can do it for a certain number of trainee pilots - I've got to admit that I was much slower and didn't really start making sustained progress until I bought Phoenix and used my DX6i. Phoenix (like RealFlight) just has that edge which I found helped - better graphics, better physics, overall more believable. It didn't make the simulated flying any simpler (of course), but it did make it easier to spend hours at the computer being absorbed ... and that helped.

[BenR]

I have 2 new questions now.......

A few of the replies have touched on physics. When you mean physics are you talking about physics of flight in general or models in particular? Is it a case that FMS is going to teach me essentially "dont be a ham-fisted lump" and not much more?

The other question is about radios. I have flown a 3ch plane (hobbyzone champ) a few times. I can well understand the need for 4 channels (airlerons). 5 and 6 I think I can accept (flaps, probably landing gear). What channels are necessary after that? At what point does it become "mine is bigger then yours"?

[~KevJ~]

Kev's Recomendation for getting into RC Flight at PRCAC (my opinion only)

go up to hobbies in the hills castle hill
buy yourself a dx6i from him for $199
buy the pheonix dongle jason linked above for $20 dollars

fly on computer for a couple of weeks and see if you like it, if not resell the dx6i with dongle on ebay for $150 or more. if you do like it go back up to hobbies in the hills and buy a parkzone BNF T28 Trojan for $279 this will give u a spare receiver cause he doesnt stock the PNP version but thats fine by this time you will be planning your second plane anyway :P

assuming you used the pheonix and have formed a basic knowledge of orientation you will transition straight into the air on a buddy lead (ask for gary at the field he's your man :P )

this is simply put , the best way to learn to fly at prcac (all things considered ie power lines,trees, ability to repair parkzone trojans)

voila your a pilot!

now, to answer your question:

6 channels can be used up easily with a small edf or medium sized prop plane, to fine tune aircraft it is preferable to have for example 1 aileron per channel so that you can set them up to work as a kind of flap ( flaperon / spoileron ) u may have proper flaps installed using the same style of servo and need to reverse one to make them both work together properly making 1 flap servo on each channel that is just a basic example of using up 4 channels right there, add the elevator,rudder,throttle and your at 7 ch without even getting too fancy, perhaps you want brakes or want to drop parachutes for kids or want to mix tailerons in ... the list goes on.
basically to start out 6ch (dx6i) will enable you to learn to fly and even get into abit of intermediate stuff (if you are happy to make compromises in plane setup ie y leads etc ) but anything more and your gonna need an upgrade, this is where it gets tricky in deciding just how far into the hobby you think your gonna get ..lol good luck there but most ppl in my experience that are keen on rc and flight to start with are in trouble once they start.. you will see plane after plane that you just have to have ..
hope that kinda helped and made sense for ya written in abit of a rush at work.
GL with your choice.

see ya at the field

Kev.

EDIT: i almost forgot .. never .... ever... lend your t28 to your father..
lol jks dad

[smuzz]

Kev has wrapped up the whole scene for you quite nicely there - all good.

I have 2 new questions now.......

A few of the replies have touched on physics. When you mean physics are you talking about physics of flight in general or models in particular? Is it a case that FMS is going to teach me essentially "dont be a ham-fisted lump" and not much more?

With "physics" we're basically referring to the mathematical models being used to represent the planes, the wind-gusts, the laws of motion ... the whole simulated world. If it's a convincing representation of what you experience when you are on the sticks for real, then you're more readily going to engage with it when you're at home on your computer and you'll happily spend hours immersing yourself in a pseudo life-like activity which isn't a waste of time. Naturally, the simulator will save you hundreds (perhaps thousands) of dollars but none of them are indistinguishable from flying a real model of course. Even though I've fiddled with the wind settings on Phoenix in every conceivable way for example, I've never been able to get it to behave just like it does at our flying field - but that isn't really the point. What a simulator does is allow you to wire up new neural pathways between your eyes and your thumbs so that when you see a model doing something you don't like, you can reach for a correct response automatically without having to consciously think everything through.
Yes, FMS will teach you how to avoid being a ham-fisted lump (that's quite a good summary of it) - and for that you can be very thankful. However, the better the simulator the more fun you have and the more readily you'll pick up what you need.

[Kedumba]

most ppl in my experience that are keen on rc and flight to start with are in trouble once they start.. you will see plane after plane that you just have to have ..

If in doubt of this statment, just check the signatures of most of the people that post here ...

[gbanger]

Well said Kev, Could not have put it much better myself.
Without going on any further Ben.
If you are serious about the hobby you really can't go past the DX6i for learning to fly its a good radio and most of the pilots in our club use them.
The sim is also a must if you want to save yourself hours at the field standing beside an instructor.
By the way flying on a buddy lead is by far the best way to learn, because when you get disorientated or just get "dumb thumbs" and trust me it will happen.
The instructor can take over in a heart beat for you and your plane will return to terra firma in one piece. And thats always a really good thing!
Gazz

[Flying fisho]

I have been using Phoenix for as long as I have been learning/flying & equally support the praises given so far. What was not mentioned was that our field is available to download as a Phoenix flying site. Nothing like flying your own plane (ie trojan model available) on our own field. Another unmentioned useful piece of info, even our most experienced pilots use it to retrain thumbs after a period of flying abstinance in preparation for the next days flying. So the sim purchase is not something used simply to learn to fly & then hide away in the never-nevers of the computer.