[paulj]

Hi guys,
Don't want to spoil anyones fun but feel I need to
remind everyone of the flight line etiquette of calling out ones
intentions when flying.
I noticed today that the line was very quiet and we ended up with
a mid-air and a very near miss on the runway.
Whenever there are more than 1 plane flying it is up to the pilots to
agree on direction of travel etc( ie. right or left circuits)
3D flying should not be done over the runway whenever other planes are
doing circuits. This can lead to the dangerous situation of aircraft
flying in opposite directions with the obvious potential for collision.
Our hobby costs us enough without incurring needless expense.
Lets all show consideration for others by trying to avoid such incidents.
If anyone is unsure of the etiquette, just ask one of the committee to
explain.
End of rant.......sorry

[~KevJ~]

fair call , i havent been flying in ages but your right its something that we need to always be doing..

[secant0give]

Definatly a fair call I'll make sure that I'm more carefull
in the future and maintain the corect circuit direction when other planes are in the air.
Paul your absolutly right, I guess I've been lucky on more than one occasionin the past and there does come a time when your luck runs out if you do continue to push the limits.


I'm Sorry about your plane John and for the near miss Dave.

[dingy]

Guys,

I definitely agree 100% with Paul as it is becoming a real problem over the last few months – I have addressed my concerns during committee meetings in the past.

There is also another extreme concern – that is the acknowledgement of the call that was posted. There have been numerous occasions I have called out & nobody has answered, recalled & still no answer.

The calling & acknowledgement go hand in hand; I believe our safety needs to be readdressed to all our members & visitors.

It has to be pointed out that the call of “dead stick” takes priority over all landings in progress & all club members need to know this as all of us will be in this situation one day.

Play & fly safe as the result in not doing this could be something that we will all regret in the future.

Ingo

[dwils]

Hi Paul sorry didnt make it back but harley tried to break my ankle and almost sucseeded but the important thing is that flight line edicate is everyones responsablility not just the committee and every one is responsible to make sure it happens (not just when you think someone may be watching) there have been numorouse talks about it and there will probablly be as many more in the future if necessary hold meetings before you all fly to reitterate the required flight line lingo

[stillflyin]

Hi Jason. My first mid air. Didn't see you coming at all, first thing I remember was the bang as wings hit. But for 5 inches we would have missed. Looking at the impact damage to both planes I can only figure you must have been knife edge as the wings hit at a 90 degree angle. Last night I ordered a replacement plane (Cap 232) and this morning looked at the mustang again as I was going to pull everything out of it. Reckon I might be able to fix it all but for a few scars.

[kizza42]

It was your perfect knife edge slice, couldn't have pulled it off if you tried!

[robair]

G'day All

Nothing like a good mid air to spice up the day however there is the safety aspect to consider as well as courteous airmanship on the flightline.
We should not forget that the absolute basis tenets of flying are, in descending order of merit:
Aviate
Navigate
Communicate

If all 3 aren't happening something bad is likely to occur.

Perhaps we could allocate slots if time at the field as required on the day for different styles of flight. The way I see it is that if you have multiple different aircraft up with vastly different flight profiles and speed an accident is inevitable no matter how much communication is flowing.

Cheers
RobB

[Skidz]

Good point Rob. If there are guys doing circuits and then an aerobatic aircraft goes up, then chances are that communication alone will not ensure that a mid-air wont happen due to the freestyle flying pattern. Seems logical to ensure that any flyer entering the airspace needs to ensure their intended manoeuvres won't endanger other aircraft. Conversely, if an aerobatic aircraft is flying freestyle, then circuit flyers waiting for take-off should wait until the aerobatic aircraft is down. No need to allocate slots.

[gbanger]

Thats right Dave.
We all need to be considerate of what other people are doing with regard to the type of aircraft they are flying, the perameters in which that aircraft flys and most importantly does it fit with what else is happening in the sky around you.
Dave always waits for a pause in fixed wing flying before heading out for a flight with his heli.
A few of our experienced 3D pilots will always fly low altitude and well off to one side when there are other circuit flying type aircraft in the air.
All it takes to avoid these types if situations is a little fore thought and consideration for others prior to take off, and even more when in the air.

[Claudius]

Don't want to spoil anyones fun but feel I need to
remind everyone of the flight line etiquette of calling out ones
intentions when flying.
I noticed today that the line was very quiet and we ended up with
a mid-air and a very near miss on the runway.

Not at all Paul - I think this is a reasonable thing to voice, and a periodic gentle reminder like this is probably preferable to strict policing (and I say this as an innocent party in yet another incident you missed later in the day!)

3D flying should not be done over the runway whenever other planes are
doing circuits.

As Dave brings up, I'd like to query what the consensus opinion is over etiquette in the reverse case.

I have regularly waited at the flight line for circuit traffic to cease or minimise to an avoidable level (i.e. a single aircraft) when I'm flying my 3D profile model, only to then be joined by other members wishing to fly circuits.

I'm not averse to waiting, or even having circuit traffic enter after I've begun 3D flying; however in the latter case my expectation would be that the onus on avoidance is on the late-comers.

Is that not the case, or are we proposing here that distinct forms of flying simply not be performed concurrently?

[secant0give]

I think comunication and something along the lines of what Gaz is sugesting has worked quite well in the past.

[dingy]

Gents,

The rules I have always followed are:-

When there is a Heil flying I simply wait – Just to protect myself & the heil, more myself.
When there are 3D planes flying – same I wait.
When there is a lot traffic wait, maybe we should set an official limit of number of aircraft flying at once.

Yes & I expect no less when I ‘m flying a fixed wing that should also apply – it doesn’t as on a few occasions 3D planes have joined in, never happened with a heli.

It comes down to simple deduction & manners – if there are others flying, access the traffic & wait if you have too.

Having said all the above the fact of receiving no response or acknowledgment to a call really gets me going big time.

If people are flying whatever type of aircraft & someone asks to join in the responsibility is always on the people flying at the time to say NO/ YES depending on traffic & aircraft flying.

Also the same applies if someone intends on using the angled strip, again, let others know of your intentions, last thing we want is to have a plane heading towards pilots with them not knowing.

Having stated all the above maybe we should consider bringing back the safety officer.

For those not familiar, we all have turns for a day of being a safety officer wearing an orange vest.

It is the responsibility of the safety officer to address the problems for that day.

It is also every club member’s responsibility to be a safety officer all the time, if you see a problem address it so it can be rectified & yes communication is the key word.

[paulj]

I don't want to see strict rules introduced to the flight line,unless
absolutely necessary.
Much better for everyone if we all co-operate with each other.
As Gazz has mentioned there are times when our 3D fliers see that
circuit fliers are also flying and they keep to the side and operate at a lower altitude,
this allows the circuit fliers a degree of comfort that they can predict where the 3D
aircraft will be in relation to the circuit.
Also as Ingo has stated there are times when circuit fliers can see that the 3D aircraft are flying and wait until they are finished rather than take off.
This also of course applies to helis as well.
The club is for everone so common sense should be all that is required to enable everyone
to enjoy their day at the field.
BUT! Communication is a MUST...
Everyone should call out their intentions AND all calls should be responded to.
"Dead Stick" has top priority followed by "Landing" (also advise which direction of travel)

[samste]

I don't want to see strict rules introduced to the flight line,unless
absolutely necessary.
Much better for everyone if we all co-operate with each other.
As Gazz has mentioned there are times when our 3D fliers see that
circuit fliers are also flying and they keep to the side and operate at a lower altitude,
this allows the circuit fliers a degree of comfort that they can predict where the 3D
aircraft will be in relation to the circuit.
Also as Ingo has stated there are times when circuit fliers can see that the 3D aircraft are flying and wait until they are finished rather than take off.
This also of course applies to helis as well.
The club is for everone so common sense should be all that is required to enable everyone
to enjoy their day at the field.
BUT! Communication is a MUST...
Everyone should call out their intentions AND all calls should be responded to.
"Dead Stick" has top priority followed by "Landing" (also advise which direction of travel)

I Agree

Steve

[popeyepete]

Pin this thread in the general forum or update the "Safety First" thread.

[gbanger]

The committee will be discussing this ongoing problem tomorrow evening, but at the end of the day, it is the responsibility of EVERY pilot to adhere to the very simple safe flying protocols EVERY time they take off!
We are ALL guilty of it from time to time because we are all human and people make mistakes. (I know I did once :-).
The most important thing to keep in ones mind while in the air is consideration for everyone else who is up there with you.
Gazz

[brotherblonde]

people make mistakes. (I know I did once :-).
Gazz

NOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Please tell me it's not true!!