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Sticky: Bronze and Gold Wings Requirements
#31

Gday Steve

Any aircraft (fixed wing) will spin. If the aircraft enters the stall and descends wings level with a nose high attitude (mushing) the spin can be induced by aileron input to drop the wing. For example two training aircraft that I have flown have different tendencies towards spinning. The C152 can reach the incipient spin and be held with rudder in the stalled state wings level quite easily and happily mush in all the way to terra firma. However the Piper Tomahawk will aggresively drop a wing as soon as the stall speed is reached. Hence it's nickname, the "Spinahawk". If you can balance and mush that aircraft in the stall with rudder you are one hell of a good pilot.
It's the old adage that stands true for every pilot in any aircraft, especially in the landing phase when your speed is the lowest and there is no altitude to recover. If you get too slow and lift is less than weight expect Stall, spin, bang, you're dead. Darren sadly demonstrated this with his Pilatus.
The T28 would likely need the aileron input to induce the spin just like the C152. When I was doing the spin training in the 152 it always needed a bit of an aileron nudge to get her going.

Cheers
Rob B
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#32

I got an idea. The issue is recovering from an "uncontrolled" spin. Do a power climb facing outer space then cut the throttle dead and put the TX on the ground for a few seconds (look mum.. no hands!). Get in to some serious unplanned earthbound action then pick up your TX and get out of that! Would that be recovering from an uncontrolled spin?
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#33

I hear you Rob - when I was under instruction 1978 I never actually did a spin in the Cessna 152 (VH-MVY) we had at the Manning River Aeroclub, but when the Piper sales people suggested we take a Tomahawk on loan for a couple of weeks, we all lined up to have a crack at that (still got my log book with the entry!). I can remember it as clear as if it was yesterday - once the Tomahawk settled into the spin there were no noticeable forces on us, we were sitting under the bubble canopy as if we were sitting in an armchair in the loungeroom, but we were watching the ground swirling crazily right in front of us. Fantastic stuff.

The thing with the models we fly is that they need to be held in the spin. Recovering is as simple as taking your thumbs (or thumb and index finger if you do it that way) off the gimbals and the plane instantly does what it was designed to do and stops spinning.

I think the original intent of the gold wings test was to demonstrate that the pilot can recover from the true stalled spinning state that is an uncontrolled descent. Which, as you've already said, means stick forward to escape the stalled condition and then aileron before up elevator.

Steve Murray
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#34

Gday Dave

I can't interpret the gold wings requirement as needing the spin to be uncontrolled, whatever that means. However what you have described would be a real "tester" for sure.

Also, last weekend were you wringing out the Logo a bit, suspect I heard some rotor slap from my place. Heard this whoppp whopp sound a few times, sounded way cool!

Cheers
Rob B
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#35

(14-05-2011, 07:31 PM)robair Wrote:  Gday Dave

I can't interpret the gold wings requirement as needing the spin to be uncontrolled, whatever that means. However what you have described would be a real "tester" for sure.

Also, last weekend were you wringing out the Logo a bit, suspect I heard some rotor slap from my place. Heard this whoppp whopp sound a few times, sounded way cool!

Cheers
Rob B

Off topic (sorry).. the sound carries that far?
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#36

Yep
SmileThumbup

Cheers
Rob B
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#37

Gday Steve
Sorry, I missed your earlier reply, to recover from the incipient spin it is stick forward to regain airspeed, however to recover from the actual spin it is opposite rudder to the direction of spin to stop the rotation then stick aft to get back into the glide attitude and speed. ANY aileron used to try to recover from a spin will end in nothing but pain, it has to be rudder and elevator to recover. Use of aileron will induce a loaded roll via adverse yaw and more than likely overstress the aircraft.

One thing that has always stuck with me is that you cannot enter a true stall/ spin (with neutral trim) unless you have back pressure on the stick concurrent with a low airspeed. I distance that comment from the accelerated stall which is a different kettle of fish. Still requires back pressure though however can happen at any airspeed!

I share your fond memories of the Tomahawk, top fun aircraft to fly. When I was instructing I scared the crap out of many a student whilst demonstrating its angry spin for the first time.

Cheers
Rob B
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#38

I didn't know that about using rudder in the spin recovery Rob, thanks for the heads-up. I thought it was stick forward to get out of the sustained stall, then opposite aileron to counter what is at that stage a roll (rather than a spin), then back on the stick so that the ground is finally avoided. This is all assuming an upright spin rather than an inverted one of course (I never did an inverted spin). I only ever did it once and it was over 30 years ago, but it was a hoot!

This is probably digressing more than the thread should permit, but just quickly: The instructor in the Tomahawk was talking me through entering the spin as he was easing the power off and lifting the nose, but just before he kicked the rudder to get us into the spin proper we heard a banging noise from the back of the plane. It was a really loud banging noise too, which sounded just like someone repeatedly hitting the back of a car with an open hand - but of course we were at 6,000 ft, so it couldn't have been that. We turned our heads around and could see the entire tailplane, which is on top of the fin on a Tomahawk, twisting up and down! It was moving up and down by about 100 mm at the tips in the turbulent airflow from the wings. At the time I thought it was all good fun, but in retrospect I don't know how much of that sort of treatment it would take before fatigue starts to break things.

Great stuff - I really enjoyed those days ... anyway, I'd better get back to work - Junior will mercilessly kick my fat ar$e if things are not prepped properly for tomorrow morning! Are you going to be at the field tomorrow?...

Steve Murray
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#39

Gday Steve

Yes will be down today for a bit, just cramming coffee into myself as we "speak". Can only stay untill 1030 or so, expect field arrival about 9'ish. Looking forward to it as I am sure the field is in tip top shape after the Gazza/ Skids haircut. Good stuff guys, highly appreciated!!!!

Cheers
Rob B
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#40

Hey Kiran
I'm thinking about buying one of these for teaching students to fly.
I think it would be a good all around aircraft for basic training and might also be good for doing spin recovery.....Interested in your thoughts.
Obviously I would be doing take offs and landing, (my plane) once the student gets to solo time they can transfer to their own aircraft but I thought if you are training people through the basics on the same plane all the time you would learn more about the students ability and be able to help them more because you would be more in tune with the aircraft, do you think it would be a good trainer. I was teamed up with a guy at the instructors couse and had to fly the big sucker for my second flight. It flew very predictably with a nice low power glide angle for landing practice but the owner said it spins like a demon and with increased rates is quite aerobatic. It is quite large so helps with visual orientation, what do you think.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...ouse_.html
Gazz

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#41


Looks like a nice machine Gazz
From the reviews it needs a little tinkering but the price is right !!

“The knack of flying is learning how to throw your machine at the ground and miss.”

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your thoughts turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."  ~Leonardo Da Vinci
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#42

I like the plan & it looks good but maybe a bit on the fragile side, I'd want something really really simple that you can abuse and not worry about. There are cheaper better airframes for the job.

I'm hoping to have my one up and running soon which I'll be donating for club use. You can help if you want by doing a bit of balsa work to the airframe. I'm gonna run one of those new Hk cordless buddy systems in it.
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#43

Hey Kieran I actuall Bought one of those when they came out on Hobbyking in new items, as i thought they would be an easier way to set up for buddy.
There made by Assan, Havent tried it out yet but they look the part.

Steve


What Do You Mean Theres a Throttle Curve ?, Its Either all the way up or all the way down Tongue_smile
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#44

One of the guys had one at the course last wekend and he fly it with a another guy from his club with a bloody huge Gas YAK. The guy has been flying for 30 years and flys pattern displays with giants all over Australia and he said and I quote " IN MY HUMBLE OPINION THEYRE BLOODY AWSOME" so if you cant believe a maggot with those sort of bloody credentials who the hell can you believe.
Gazz

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#45

A maggot? ....

Steve Murray
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#46

They grow in to flyers ?
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#47

Crack yourself up Dave !!! Clever though!

Parkzone Stryker 27 Evolution
E flite Ultra Stick , T 28 Carbon Z
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Pheonix Tiger 50
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Spectrum DX9i , DX6

Don't ever let the fear of landing keep you from taking off!
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#48

(22-08-2011, 08:06 PM)kizza42 Wrote:  I like the plan & it looks good but maybe a bit on the fragile side, I'd want something really really simple that you can abuse and not worry about. There are cheaper better airframes for the job.

I'm hoping to have my one up and running soon which I'll be donating for club use. You can help if you want by doing a bit of balsa work to the airframe. I'm gonna run one of those new Hk cordless buddy systems in it.

G'day KV

I'll do the balsa bits if you like?
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#49

G'day gazz

Congrats on the gold wings and instructor ratings mate.
Well done!
Your challenge now if you choose to accept it would be to guide a student around a single circuit using only the words and phrases below
Shit
Brides nightie
Yeeehaaaa
Seven shades of shit
Shit off a shovel

Cheers
Rob b
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#50

(11-09-2011, 09:08 AM)robair Wrote:  Your challenge now if you choose to accept it would be to guide a student around a single circuit using only the words and phrases below

Wouldn't the true challenge be to do so without using those words (and a few more choice ones? Biggrin)

Congrats to gazz and all our new Golden Winged pilots.

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#51

Too funny claudio
I stand corrected, however Gazz wouldn't have a hope in hell of passing your challenge. We need to be fair and set achievable goals.
Apologies to the other new goldies out there for missing your congrats.
Will read the MAS newsletter properly and rectify this omission

Cheers
Rob b
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#52

Congrats Gazz, that's %@##%& awesome! I think you are *^%(&^^ brilliant. (*^&%%^#% job mate!

@&*^$(&^ congrats to all the other #@%@%$& Gold Wings achievers. I feel honoured be in your %%^&#*&^% presence.

3 Useless things for a Pilot:
Air above you, Air in the tanks, Runway behind you.

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#53

Thanks for your support guys, it really is appreciated.
I am quite proud to have achieved my Instructors Wings and thank everyone who helped me along the way. Particularly Darren and Kieran for their help and support.
On a more serious note, you might want to back down the dosage of the pain killers Andrew, lucky those expletives were in written form.... I dont think my sensative personality could handle that sort of language ...:-)
Gazz

Parkzone Stryker 27 Evolution
E flite Ultra Stick , T 28 Carbon Z
Skyartec Skyfun Scorpion,Skyfun 90 EDF
Hobbyking Voltigeur, Funfighter T28, Mirage 2000, Minimoa 2.4m Glider
Jet Teng L-39 HPAT Stumax 90
Pheonix Tiger 50
FliteWork Extra 300 LPX 2.6M
Spectrum DX9i , DX6

Don't ever let the fear of landing keep you from taking off!
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#54

Congratulations Gazz !!

Well done mate Smile


“The knack of flying is learning how to throw your machine at the ground and miss.”

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your thoughts turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."  ~Leonardo Da Vinci
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#55

Can I get my Bronze wings?




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#56

Of course you can Arron, all you have to do is demonstrate that you are in control of the aircraft and that is is not in control of you. Pass an examination and voila, you have your Bronze wings.
Here are the details of what you need to know and what you have to do to complete to get them.
http://forum.rcflyingclub.com/showthread.php?tid=101
You can also read the Bronze wings document the instructor will fill out during your examination.
Once all that is done, to the instructors satisfaction, you will be rewarded your wings... easy eh!
On a more serious note.... come and see me at the field and I will walk you through the flying and the things you need to work on.

Parkzone Stryker 27 Evolution
E flite Ultra Stick , T 28 Carbon Z
Skyartec Skyfun Scorpion,Skyfun 90 EDF
Hobbyking Voltigeur, Funfighter T28, Mirage 2000, Minimoa 2.4m Glider
Jet Teng L-39 HPAT Stumax 90
Pheonix Tiger 50
FliteWork Extra 300 LPX 2.6M
Spectrum DX9i , DX6

Don't ever let the fear of landing keep you from taking off!
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#57

Gaz, thanks for my bronzed wings now, but what formalities are necessary to record the wings on my members profile
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#58

(13-12-2011, 08:40 PM)Flying fisho Wrote:  Gaz, thanks for my bronzed wings now, but what formalities are necessary to record the wings on my members profile

This must be left to the the internet God

ALL HALE TO THE INTERNET GOD KIERAN AND HE MAY PRODUCE YOU BRONZE WINGS TO YOUR AVATAR

Wayne lets see how this works First Wink

Steve

What Do You Mean Theres a Throttle Curve ?, Its Either all the way up or all the way down Tongue_smile
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#59

Thankyou Drew for fixing up Wayne, now I just need to remember where I put the code to show everyones user badges again!
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#60

Thanks Drew, I know the wings in the profile is only a formality but was an important one for me. I believe I (and my instructors) worked hard to earn those wings, and seeing the wings there just adds to my pride. I have faith in the "internet god" to restore the appearance of our members list, but I am happy enough to see the wings where they now appear.

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Amelia Earhart

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