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LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - Printable Version

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RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - Skidz - 17-09-2012

Just picking up on Heli Jeli's comment about the quad charger. I have had one for years and it is great. I can charge 4 x batteries at 1C (or less on the big buggers) and have 4 batts ready to go in the same time a guy with a single channel "Binford" charger ripping in at 4C rates. Hazards increase with current.

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - wingtipper - 05-11-2012

well THIS IS THE 2ND LOT OF 3 BATTERIES , i have purchased where one is not as good as the other two .
you may recall some discussion i had recently with my purchase of 3 x 3s 4000mah turnigy 40c batteries . one of the packs has a cell that will not chrage beyong 4.1 v.

this time i purchased 3x 5s zippy 3000mah 20c packs .
one of these batteries has a cell that charges to 4.33v leaving the others at 4.1v , when discharged this cell goes about .07v lower than the others .
I'M cycling the battery to see if she gets any better .
SURPRISES EVERY DAY IN THIS HOBBY .

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - Skidz - 05-11-2012

Lipos can be like that. I am waiting for someone to try LiFePo4 batts.

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - gbanger - 05-11-2012

I will hold the door open for you Dave, If you like!
Always happy to help!!!
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. Truth be known I just want someone else to do the hard yards...
Gazz

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - popeyepete - 21-04-2013

Very luckily averted disaster today! Did like probably many of us do and left the batteries on charge un-supervised....
   
Even stupider had all the batteries bundled on top of each other...
Fortunately my daughter noticed some smoke coming from the garage and ran inside to tell me there's a fire in the garage!!!!
3 batteries turned to dust, all the others melted in some way and I wrecked my drill box of which all this was perched upon...It must of been pretty violent as there was a spray of ash all over the place.

Probable cause...after charging a 3 cell, I wacked on a 2 cell battery and started to charge and walked away without checking the setting.

Lesson learnt? I think so!!!!

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - wingtipper - 21-04-2013

jeez Peter , very lucky your car or house wasnt affected .

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - brotherblonde - 21-04-2013

There but for the grace of God go we.

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - samste - 21-04-2013

Glad that that was only the damage caused as you hear about some bad cases.

Possibly The Charger could be Faulty as it shouldn't charge unless the correct amount of cells are detected through the balance port.

Steve


Buy yourself a metal Toolbox and charge Lipos inside the box, keeps everything in containment.



RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - smuzz - 21-04-2013

(21-04-2013, 07:09 PM)samste Wrote:  ... Possibly The Charger could be Faulty as it shouldn't charge unless the correct amount of cells are detected through the balance port.

That's what I was thinking too, mate - something amiss there.

Anyway, you dodged a bullet there Pete - get yourself a lottery ticket during the week! (... and a chocolate bar for your daughter!)

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - popeyepete - 21-04-2013

The charger allows you to 'quick charge' without the balance leads. I generally balance charge them every second round.
This is why the charger didn't detect how many cells, as quick charge you dont plug in the balance lead.

AND i did try that myth and bought a scratchie, no luck changed for me....

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - Steven - 22-04-2013

Every "four button" charger I have owned or used since about 2010 asks for confirmation on cell count in every Lithium charging mode. However my old Swallow 2 (2007?) doesn't.

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - helijeli - 22-04-2013

I almost had a similar disaster while charging Lipos on my quad charger. I was charging several Lipos and a Lead Acid battery but had gotten the leads mixed up and found later that I was charging a 3 cell Lipo with the 12V Lead Acid setting. Thinking it was a Lead acid battery, the charger kept pumping in 2 amps even after the Lipo was fully charged and over voltage. Luckily I came back to check and found the voltage was a volt or so over but no puffing or worse. Not sure if the battery is damaged from this and I'm still using it. As said in the previous posts, need to be careful of settings especially if switching between different types of batteries as the Lipo mode will check for cell count and ask for confirmation, but other battery types have different rules.
I also bend the rules while charging - who really has time to sit watching batteries charging for hours? I at least have them charging in the garage just the other side of an open door from my lounge room while I'm watching TV, so I can sort of supervise them and listen out for the finish beeps. I have been meaning to add another smoke detector in there (garage), (already have 4 or 5 in other rooms of the house), and a fire extinguisher - will probably get 2 - the kitchen could use one as well.

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - gbanger - 22-04-2013

Your not Robinson Crusoe the John... I charge my Lipo's in the garage at home to...
I am fastideous with my safety and charging protocol... you can take all the precautions in the world but never know when you might get bitten....
Safety... safety... safety !!!!

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - wingtipper - 21-07-2013

hewre is an excelent video i came across which shows lipos in production and also gives prompts along the way on lipo tips and safety
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6A9PBqTLvc

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - smuzz - 21-07-2013

Thanks Tipper - I didn't realise there was as much manual labour involved in the assembly process!

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - wingtipper - 20-03-2014

how would i balance charge this 8s battery ? i have a turnigy accucell 8 charger .
but seriously there are 2 balance leads coming out of the battery ? so if i plug the battery into a balance board which accommodates the 2 balance leads and then pug the main plug ? do i set the charger for 8s ? i would imagine so ?
or how do i cahrge it without a balance board ? and just the accucell 8 charger ?

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__21417__ZIPPY_Compact_3700mAh_8S_35C_Lipo_Pack.html

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - disoriented - 20-03-2014

Wow, it's almost like they ran out of 8S balance plugs that day Smile

The charger must be set to 8S. There's no other option with an 8S1P pack.

The balance leads are presumably meant to plug side-by-side to give the charger individual visibility of all eight cells (the safer way to do it), or in a pseudo-parallel configuration where each of the balance plugs is inserted into a separate 4S socket on a paraboard. That would cause each cell to be ganged up in parallel with one other, but the balancer circuitry would only see four cells. I expect many chargers might baulk at being asked to charge 8S voltages into only 4 visible cells.

Personally, I'd be buying some 8S JST-XH balance plugs and converting.

It looks like a nice battery, and the 5C charge rate would come in handy for zapping it with a <10min recharge at the field Smile

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - wingtipper - 20-03-2014

thanks for your advice disoriented . and here lies the answer . and of course they are only in the international warehouse and out of stock

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__51405__XH_Multi_Pack_Balance_Board_2_8S.html

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - disoriented - 20-03-2014

(20-03-2014, 08:44 PM)wingtipper Wrote:  thanks for your advice disoriented . and here lies the answer . and of course they are only in the international warehouse and out of stock

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__51405__XH_Multi_Pack_Balance_Board_2_8S.html


I don't understand why HK would do something like that. It increases complexity and therefore the level of risk. If you did want to convert to a standard 8S plug:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5-8S-9-Pin-JST-XH-Align-Replacement-Male-LiPo-Balance-Connectors-w-Pins-/230880637679?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35c18ef2ef

The plastic bits would be sufficient for the conversion, since the metal pins can be extracted without too much fuss from the 4S connectors.

You could also cannibalise the plugs from these, and have lots of stuff left over:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/10pcs-JST-XH-8S-30cm-Lipo-Balance-Extension-Lead-Charger-Wire-Cord-for-RC-Cars-/121170549875

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - wingtipper - 21-03-2014

HEY THANKS FOR THE INFO . i reckon they have been lazy , and wired 2 4s batteries in series and left the balance plugs as is, pure laziness .
the other option is just use standard charge instead of balance , and measure cells with cell metre after charging . option 1
option 2 is i'll mock up an 8s plug and convert the batteries .

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - Claudius - 21-03-2014

(20-03-2014, 06:16 PM)disoriented Wrote:  or in a pseudo-parallel configuration where each of the balance plugs is inserted into a separate 4S socket on a paraboard. That would cause each cell to be ganged up in parallel with one other, but the balancer circuitry would only see four cells.

Attempting to do this would result in an internal short through the pack itself (unless the two 4S "halves" of the main pack can themselves also be separated, in which case this would be equivalent to charging two 4S packs in parallel).

Or did I misinterpret this thought in some way?


(20-03-2014, 08:44 PM)wingtipper Wrote:  here lies the answer . and of course they are only in the international warehouse and out of stock
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__51405__XH_Multi_Pack_Balance_Board_2_8S.html

This is what I would use wingtipper... and only then because this very board came with my iCharger.

As disoriented alluded to in terms of risk, you need to be very careful to make sure you put the lower balance tap (edit: lower, as in lower potential) into the -ve side of the balance board. Every. Damn. Time. Because the first time you don't will be the last time you use that balance board or the balance taps on that battery (depending on which happens to vapourize first).

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - gbanger - 21-03-2014

My advice would be to stay away from those charging issues in the first place and run 2 x 4S batteries.
Most of the people I know that fly with big power (Over 6S ) all fly with 2 batteries in series 8S = 2 x 4S , 10S = 2 x 5S etc
All my big planes run with this system it gives flexibility with installation because you have a lot more options when it comes to the physical size of the batteries that you can use.
I keep my batteries in pairs and always fly them as pairs, that way the load on both batteries is equal and they are matched for reliability.

PS: Hello from the northern beaches, just joined WRCS and as you would expect they are a nice bunch with an absolutely awesome field.
Miss you guys.
Gazz

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - wingtipper - 21-03-2014

well bugger me . thanks for the explanation claudio . my best bet will be the fast charge then . ( leave the balance plugs unplugged altogether .
now GARRY . i have already purchased 2 x 8s batteries , for $54 each 4000mah 25c . those batteries are normally $72 each . every other option i looked at was much more than a $54 battery in the plane , and atleast 150 grams heavier . to get the same c rating or more started at about $75 upto $125
thats the reason i bought the 8s 4000mah 25c battery for the edf 80amp speedy it was the lightest and cheapest option by a fair bit . but the balance plug BS . ( WHAT A DAMN CROCK ) .
i need to get me one of those multi balance boards. or an Icharger , where does it end . i'm $900 down today

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - disoriented - 21-03-2014

(21-03-2014, 09:15 PM)Claudius Wrote:  Attempting to do this would result in an internal short through the pack itself (unless the two 4S "halves" of the main pack can themselves also be seperated, in which case this would be equivalent to charging two 4S packs in parallel).

Or did I misinterpret this thought in some way?

You're quite right. I had to sit down and have a little think about it. There's no way to hook up the cells in parallel without introducing a short somewhere.

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - wingtipper - 21-03-2014

OK NOW I'M CONFUSED .
do i have more than one option here . the multi power board.

* fast charge without balance lead ? will the accucel 8 do that ?

* convert the 2 plugs into one 8s ? is that an option?

if the only option is the multi power board which isnt available ? then i have no way to charge the battery ?

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - disoriented - 21-03-2014

(21-03-2014, 11:04 PM)wingtipper Wrote:  my best bet will be the fast charge then . ( leave the balance plugs unplugged altogether .

That's the one thing I'd personally never recommend, cos it really is rather unsafe. In fact, iChargers won't even charge that way. The balance plugs must be connected.

Many (most?) lipo fires during charging start because a cell is forced way beyond 4.2V. Say there's a 2S pack being charged with the balance plugs disconnected, and one of the cells happens to be on its last legs. The charger sees 8.4V as the termination voltage, but without the balance taps is has no way of knowing whether that's comprised of 4.2+4.2, or 4.1+4.3, or even 4.0+4.4! That last one is liable to start a fire.

For safety's sake, the balance plug should always be connected, even if the charger doesn't insist on it (in which case I'd suggest buying a safer charger).

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - wingtipper - 21-03-2014

ok so i make a y lead , that plugs from the 8s balance outlet to the 2by 4s plugs . ( just have to work out how to do that and i should then be ok ?
tips? i'll start with Jaycar .

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4S-JST-XH-RC-LiPo-Balance-Wire-Extension-Adapter-10CM-4inches-for-Align/390635338039?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222003%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140106155344%26meid%3D5641722662780313674%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D20140106155344%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D121170549875&rt=nc
i'll make 2 of these , join into a 9 pin plug for 8s . just have to bridge the red wire ( i'm guessing )

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - Chris Mc - 22-03-2014

(21-03-2014, 09:57 PM)gbanger Wrote:  My advice would be to stay away from those charging issues in the first place and run 2 x 4S batteries.
Most of the people I know that fly with big power (Over 6S ) all fly with 2 batteries in series 8S = 2 x 4S , 10S = 2 x 5S etc
All my big planes run with this system it gives flexibility with installation because you have a lot more options when it comes to the physical size of the batteries that you can use.
I keep my batteries in pairs and always fly them as pairs, that way the load on both batteries is equal and they are matched for reliability.

PS: Hello from the northern beaches, just joined WRCS and as you would expect they are a nice bunch with an absolutely awesome field.
Miss you guys.
Gazz

Hi Gazz, On Friday I bought 2 planes from a WRCS member, his name is Phil and is a lawyer, really nice guy. He is mainly flying 2 mtr planes now so he waas selling off his excess. I got a 1200mm Eflite PT 17 Stearman, balsa, and a 1100mm P-47. Hope you enjoy the new Club mate, you will be missed at PRCAC.

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - wingtipper - 22-03-2014

well it all became too hard . i ended up cancelling the order from HK, cause it wasnt in the warehouse que yet .
i think i'll buy some zippy compact 4cell -4000mah-25c battery packs instead cost a bit more but thats my only choice . i'll buy 4 of them , atleast i can charge them and the weight is the same . i already have the wiring to put them in series , and they are 4mm plugs not 5.5 , more suited to 80amp esc .

nah , i lashed out and bought nano tech 4s 4000mah 25-50c they are 50grams per battery heavier . so thats 100grams per flight heavier , but my reasoning is i had 2 of the zippy compact 4s 4000mah batteries in the shed on storage charge . just checked them and one has a dead cell .
so the nanotechs batteries are $80 in the plane rather than $54 . but hey they're nanotechs and i can charge these puppies .

dancing around waiting for my edf and my , new rarebear , and my new batteries now . oh and i ordered an L.E.D after burner kit for the viper upon the sellers recommendation . have to trust it's the right size .

RE: LIPO SAFETY !!!!!! - wingtipper - 22-03-2014

thats what this forum is all about .
THANKS, disoriented !!! , Claudius !!!, and gbanger !!! . steered me in the right direction . cheers .Thumbup Biggrin