Parramatta Radio Control Aircraft Club

We are getting a few new helicopters flyers in to the club which is great. For the newbies I thought I would try and compile some places (on the web) of interest that I have used in progressing through the complexities of learning to fly RC helicopters. This post will be edited many times with new information so for those interested, please check post #1 from time to time for more info.

For the newbies, the first lessons are patience, and practice.. practice.. practice. A rough guide on progression is to allow 6-months just to learn to hover competently, another 6-months to learn to move the helicopter around the ground in your general vacinity doing "figure 8s", and another 6-months to learn to fly "sport style" in larger open spaces where you may learn to fly some of the easier aerobatic manouvers (stall turns, loops and flips). This all may sound like a very long time but trust me, if you are really into RC helis, the reason will likely be because you enjoy a challenge and want to fly RC helis because of the difficulty itself. It is damn hard in those early days so don't lose faith in your flying and do time on the simulator.

Learning to fly RC helis is extremely satisfying as you progress through the many challenges. Trust me, you will not lose interest! My tip? Invest in a few extra batteries as once you are building in confidence and want to fly another lesson back-to-back, having a few extra batteries won't see you heading back home to the Lipo charger just when you were getting the hang of it!

Dave.

Quick mention on the matter of safety: We often hear of safety being overdone but guys, please, safety with RC helicopters needs your utmost attention. RC helis are inherently dangerous. We go from say 450 class which will hurt you to 600/700 class which can kill you. Please have respect for yourself and for others. Want a sampler? Check this link: http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_u...dIlUYiVmnc . You need to be registered with YouTube and over 18 to see what happens. Not for the those who get sick easily. Message? Be ultra safety conscious at all times. These things bite hard!

Some basics:

1. Never connect power to the motor of your heli until you are in the designated flying area. Applying power to the motor behind the flight line is dangerous and shouldn't be done. Disconnect power to the motor after spool down and return back to the pit area with power off to the motor.

2. Always keep 10m from the heli. Do not fly if other people are forward of the flight line or closer than 30m from your heli.

3. Only fly at the PRCAC field or other designated RC model park. Public footy and soccer parks are forbidden by councils. Only sanctioned RC flying fields are useable spaces. For smaller helis, practice in your back yard by all means (not a public space). Keep safety front of mind. No kids or dogs around please. For larger helis, flying in the privacy of your yard is a very bad idea. Save it for the flying field.

--------------------

For the super newbie, check out Radd's School of Rotary Flight. "Radd" is certainly a character from the writing style but the fundamental lessons from day 1 are spot on and the sequence of progression (and rate of progression) are clearly set out for learners. One of the biggest issues facing learners is "what comes first and what do I do next?". This link is very helpful.
Link: http://www.dream-models.com/eco/pre-Flight.html . Look for the links on the left of the screen that show "Flying". Under that heading you will see a series of "Batteries". This is where you need to look as these are the various lessons.

Hovering lesson:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc9ZMKK1gIo&feature=related

---------------------

For the advancing newbie, this link (archeli or Australian RC Helicopter forum) has some great flying education on turning, performing loops, etc.
Link: http://www.archeli.com.au/forums/articles.php?c=664

---------------------

For those of aspiring or actually going to build new RC helicopters, there is a fantastic website forum for RC heli flyers called "Helifreak". The web address is http://www.helifreak.com . The founder of that site, Bob White who goes by the forum alias of "Finless", is acknowledged widely as one of the figureheads of RC helis bringing knowledge and experience of many experts to the general masses of both aspiring and experienced heli flyers out there.

For those interesting in building helicopters, check out the extensive "how to" videos that can be downloaded or viewed free.
Visit Finless Bob's Heli Tech Room: http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=41692

---------------------

For newbies and experts wanting to read-up on forums on all things helicopters:
http://www.helifreak.com (USA)
http://www.archeli.com.au (AU)
http://www.rcrotorz.com.au (AU)
[There are many more but these are the main sites that I use. The Australian forums also have many links to RC Heli vendors. This might help in establishing who can supply spare parts in the event of crash damage. The Australian based on-line vendors are very reputable, competitively priced, and being so visible on the forums nearly always provide outstanding customer service].

---------------------

For newbies and experts, the place to go for tuition on advanced flying videos and general information videos is SmackTalk RC. This site features Bert Kammerer (uber experienced RC heli pilot) and Bobby Watts (another super talented RC heli pilot). They go through many subjects in extreme detail. There are FREE sample videos but the 30 min and 1 hour HD vids are not free but... they are very low priced at a few dollars only (PayPal) and are very high quality. You can download different formats simultaneously for the one charge. This way you can have the same video in HD for the PC and in MP4 format for your Apple iPhone or your Apple iTouch. These videos are HIGHLY recommended to RC heli pilots wanting to know more, or fly like a pro.
Link: http://www.smacktalkrc.com/

--------------------

Auto-rotations

Auto-rotations are the helicopter equivalent of a plane's dead-stick landing. The main rotor blades are positioned so that descending creates a windmill effect and spins the blades up for that one and only flare to set the heli down gently. Used for emergencies or used as a stunt move, being able to competently do auto-rotations will save you money one day.

Big helicopters do them well (due to size and weight of blades) and small helicopters do them poorly (same reason).

A good thread to start with:
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=248282

Excellent idea, Dave

A couple of guys on YT have a lot of vids relating to helis.

http://www.youtube.com/user/NightFlyyer?feature=chclk
You may have to scroll through many vids to find them, as he does a lot more than just helis, but it's worth it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/sokal11
This guy has a lot of training vids that are helpful.

http://www.youtube.com/user/hbk2flyer
Again, a scroll down is required, but a LOT of good, basic info available.

Quite often, seeing is better than reading.

thanks guys this thread starts at a perfect time for me, thanks to micks rendition of the field on pheonix and dave addition to the club recently i have spent a bit of time on the sim i have a renewed interest in at least attempting to learn to fly heli's, i left the field today and went home to do some more work to a HK450 i had at home and im certain that i have probably put things on backwards and just generally mucked up the build so im wanting to bring it down the field with me next weekend to perhaps get somebody to have a look at it and point out changes i need to make because otherwise its going to sit at home like it has for the last 3 months with me too scared to just put it together through fear of stuffing it up.. anyway i appreciate all the info guys and will be watching plenty of vids this week and looking forward to catching up down the field next time.

Bring it down next weekend for sure mate. I am planning to be there both days.

I built and flew a HK450 as my first heli and basically learned to fly on that. It was the first heli in my fleet of 3 to go upside down. I still have it. I can help you with any aspect building or flying it.

There is plenty around on HK450 helis as they are basically identical to an Align 450SE or 450SEV2. Plenty of Align parts available locally for spare parts. If I recall, Kieran has a similar 450.

Check out this site: http://www.hk450.com/hk450-rc-helicopter/
He is an Aussie guy that documented his first helicopter build. There is good info in there.

My only tip is where any metal threaded part screws into another metal part, you need to add a small amount of loctite. The HK450 comes with no loctited parts at all. This means taking the blade grip retaining bolts out and loctiting those plus a small amount of grease on the thrust bearings. Loctite is your friend on heli builds. The trick is to put a drop over the first two or three threads and pinch gently with your finger/thumb. This absorb most of the liquid leaving the right amount on the thread. Too much loctite can be messy or disastrous if gets in to bearing or other moving parts.

There's plenty of Loctite on Kev's heli

Nice one kizza.........................

Added auto-rotation information to post #1

thanks dave slowly but surely im reading my way thru this stuff as a side project to my planes. i brought my 450 down on the weekend and darren went over it for me and sorted out alot of the radio setting and what not as i was way off the mark. he actually had her airborne for afew flights which was great to see. there is vibration in her tho so he has set me the task of balancing the blades and asked me to get kizz to have a look at the gyro settings after that as it was playing up on him ( i may require a new one) im looking forward to getting all that done and getting down their for my first attempt at heli flight/crash. more sim time for the moment required also to lock in that orientation.

Yeah thanks for this Dave - very useful info. That Bert Kammerer you mentioned is just an insane RC pilot - not that I particularly strive to fly that style of '3D', but the skills are just immense.

Will hopefully get the Gaui up in the air this weekend (weather/wind permitting)...

Graham

Would we be interested in asking MASNSW Heli CFI George Atkinson to visit us one weekend and hold a mini heli workshop for our growing legion of heli flyers.

We could ask him to do a few wings inspections and maybe impart some of his wealth of experience/advice on heli flying. (He's trained with all the big names o/s like Curtis Youngblood etc)

Just after EOI's at this point. I believe he does charge a fee for lessons but if the interest is there the club could perhaps look at subsidizing...

I'm in. Any type of workshop/advice I'd be very much up for.

Graham

Not having any interest in helis, I can truly be impartial when I say that "this is a great idea" Kieran!

Apart from the fun and comraderie we experience as a club, it's things like this that make being a fully paid-up member of a registered club such a better prospect being one of the poor souls that try to go it alone in public parks.

I agree, it would be fantastic to have someone like that come pay us a visit and have chat and maybe a fly
Mick

Excellent idea Kieran.

Count me in.

Yes, I am in as well. It would be good to go for bronze. Might have to start practicing those last three compulsory moves (that i've been avoiding) for a crack at gold.

Well you'll have a bit of time to practice, He's currently touring Europe and wont be back till September. Will chase it up then!

Like most others I was very disappointed to hear of the demise of area 51 last night, especially while contemplating the condition of McCoy. However, having recently crossed over to the other (Heli) side, I ventured across to McCoy late this morning and joined a few others for some flying. I joined Russell for some Hovering practice in the Heli area and had a great time. 4 Batteries didn't last long but very satisfying to actually get my big scary bird into the air even if a lot of it was just bunny hopping through the paspalum. I contructed a home made training gear out of dowel and foam balls which really helped keep the Heli manageable over the weedy grass. Looking forward to alot more practice. Obviously not giving up my fixed wing flying but the variety of different aircraft definately keeps things interesting. Just need to not get confused between the different controls!

Sounds good John. Keep up the practice and remember, don't rush. Longevity and saving $$$ is the name of the game

Dave, I found that power glitch problem with the Gaui. You were right about it being in the high current wiring. One of the ESC plugs came off when I disconnected the Lipo. A bad solder joint and dry joint. I resoldered a new bullet plug onto the ESC wires - should be OK now. Will check next Hovering session that the glitches have gone. Not much time for flying over the Xmas weekend but have the following week off - should get some in then - weather permitting.

Great. I am sure there wont be any more power glitches like you were experiencing. Being belt driven, you might still get the odd tail kick from static. If it happens, it will be mild and about once per two flights. That can be sorted as well. Shouldn't happen hovering.

I also rebound my mCPx the other day and my collective control has returned after rebinding it. Happy days! Can't work that one out.

Went through my batteries practicing hovering at the old quarry around the corner. Glitches seem to be gone although as you said dave, the tail did kick once or twice. Also I think one of mybatteries could be dodgy. Power dropped off earlier than expected & cells unbalanced. Have marked it as sus & will keep an eye on it. Happy with my progress though. Am resonably confidently hovering around at 2 to 3 feet altitude. Practicing moving sideways & forward back (slowly). Not a lot of room at this quarry, so practice there is probably short term. McCoy has more room - have the coming week off and will get some extra practice in. Still love flying the mCPX - great training & definately helps with flying my bigger bird. Will take my time with the 550 but it is fun to actually have it off the ground!

Has anyone had trouble with the Softstart on their Heli?
I just stripped a few teeth on a Main Gear of my Gaui 550 this morning. It's happened because the Soft Start on my Turnigy Plush 60A doesn't work. I've programmed the ESC with "Super Soft Start", then when that wouldn't work, I also turned on "Governor Mode" (after reading a forum). Still no luck. It's odd because the original Gaui ESC was doing the same thing - although I think it did work sometimes - but it finally died altogether, which is why I replaced it with the Turnigy. I have got 2 more of that ESC arriving soon, so I can try another one. I've been trying to be gentle with the Collective on Spool up so that it spools up gently but the Power ramps up quickly and Spool up has been fairly abrupt at times - obviously puts a lot of stess on the gearing.
Anyway, just wondering if anyone has any thoughts, as I will replace the gear but it will happen again if I don't sort out the Spool up issue.

John, I don't have an answer for the ESC problem but, for the over-quick spool up, there may be a temporary help (until the new ECS's arrive). Check your throttle curve & see what it does from 0 throttle to 50%..that's normally L-2-3(3 being 50% stick) it should be around 50% power for learning. Obviously L (or 1 on some TX) is 0% power in normal mode. Try setting the next stick position ("2" on the curve) to something less than a linear straight line & leave the mid stick at 50%.

This means that the first part of the spool up is more gentle up to 1/4 stick, then it's a bit more rapid to 50%. I think for you though, the important bit is getting the blades to start moving gently. By having the 1/4 stick power set lower than linear, this should help. I hope this long winded answer helps.

Cheers,

Andrew.

A couple of comments.

If the soft start appears not to be working, it can only be the ESC settings. Check them.

The "correct" way to spool up under soft start is to set throttle hold and position the throttle around 50% (hover point). Then you simply release the throttle hold and the blades should spool up progressively according to your ramp time settings.

Note that if you have soft start active and then attempt to spool up progressively using the throttle stick (pushing it forward manually to ramp up the throttle demand), you can get variable results if you are hesitant in getting to at least 50% throttle briskly.

Keep well clear of governor mode. There are few ESCs that work well under governor mode. Most dont work well or dont work. It is quite complex but can work well with the right ESC and heli set ups (radio, batteries, etc). My Logo 600 operates this way.

The other point is that "Northerner" put a Tonic Z20A which has balls. It will strip teeth when most motors would protest.

Actually that makes sense Dave. I've been reluctant to position the collective at 50% as you say, thinking that with whatever is wrong, the motor will spin up suddenly and definately strip gears. As you say, moving the stick gradually is probably what's causing unpredicable spoolups whereas I should use your method. I thought it strange that both ESCs were doing the same thing and I did check the ESC setting for Soft Start (I'll disable Governor mode as you've suggested).
Looking at the Heli Manual, I've worked out how to change the stripped gear and Northerner included a spare with my Heli. Just need to find/purchase the correct allen key for the gear shaft.

Try taking the main blades off for a spool up test. Might save your gears if the ESC is set incorrectly. Don't let the speed build, just test the soft start is working other wise the tail blades will bite and give you new problems to deal with.

Set the ramp for 10 or so seconds depending on what options you have.

What I think could be happening is perhaps a short soft start time which basically expires while you are moving the throttle stick forward. Then you have full power at the stick (no soft start). The other issue might be a notchy throttle curve - or a combination of both. I have seen Spektrum TXs "pulse" when crossing from one defined point to the next on the throttle curve. My Futaba doesn't do it by my 27MHz JR did. That power pulse might cause stresses on the drive train.

The solution? Not sure really. I'd try making the throttle curve as flat as possible in "normal" curve. Delete as many points as you can basically you have a two point curve and not a five point curve. The issues seem to be when the throttle position crosses these defined points. They appear to "spike" if that makes sense. If you can get the soft start going, you can have a dead flat line for a curve at say 80-85%. That way there are no points along the line.

I was thinking the same thing as far as spool up test with blades off - far less load. Makes you realise how much force is exerted on the gears - with the motor out, I have to apply a fair bit of force by hand onto the gears to get the blades moving, compared to how fast they jump in speed at times with motor power.
The only ESC setting on the Turnigy Plush 60A is Normal-Soft Start-Super Soft Start. That probably gives you 2 different Ramp up times. I'll set it at super soft and try at half stick with the blades off. As you said, that's probably what's happened - slowly moving the stick, the soft spoolup time expires before the blades have increased much in speed, then the power jerks suddenly. Makes sense now that I know how it works.

Very impressed with Zeejays Hobbies. Ordered metal swash (& other bits) for my mCPX on Wed and it was on my Kitchen bench next day when I got home from work. So easy to replace parts on the mCPX. Had the swash replaced in 10 min & you repair everything with the 2 jewellers screwdrivers (1 flat & 1 philips) that come with the Heli. Metal swash looks good - will take it for a few flights today.

Good investment John.

So much for metal swash for the mCPX. I still managed to break it! A couple of bingles in the local park and I broke a ball link off the swash. I think the link attaches to the ball tighter than on the original plastic swash and so in a crash there's extra stress on it instead of the link just popping off. I only had maybe 8 or 9 flights on this metal swash whereas I had lots more on the original plastic one before it eventually died - it had 4 balls so you needed to break a second one before you needed a new swash. (...guess it's good to have extra balls !!!)